5 replies to this topic

[Robinstar]

Good evening to everybody.

 

Today I lost a Seignory in favour of the AI with a method that I retain wrong and same like a trick.

 

Hereafter the history of the main events.

 

In the 1121 I declared war to Lord of Naples, managed from a player (starchild was the name) which was short present.

At the beginning of the war, I received a treaty of surrender from the player but I never accepted it.

In the 1122 I started the siege of the town and the next year I won the siege and occupied the town.

In the 1123, when I entered into the town the percentages policies of population were 80% for the House of Naples and 20% with no allegiance; after 5 years of occupation "de facto" I had brought my house to 38% (spending 3 PPs), reduced the House of Naples to 50% and the remaining population with no allegiange to 12%.

 

During the 5 years of occupation I build some buildings (motte&bailey, sawmill, market, wall, forge, windmill and taverna) and I did some researches.

Today my last action on Naples has been the harvest of windmill at 6 august 1127 and the player starchild was still present.

After I logout and while I was non present the original player was replaced from the AI.

 

When I enter again the 2th septemper 1128 I lost the seignory because of a treaty.

 

Here there are the two screens showing the treaty and the Notification window:

http://i58.tinypic.com/e99l6r.jpg

http://i57.tinypic.com/2vvqdco.jpg

 

In the Notification window is reported (in red and pink color):

1 september 1127 - House de Naples accepts the treaty Traité de reddition which was sent by house de Squillace

1 september 1127 - The war between de Squillace and de Naples ended.

 

The sentence "which was sent by house de Squillace" is FALSE, because I never sent that treaty.

 

Infact, if you see with attention the two screens of treaty is possible to note:

a ) the treaty has the Title and the content of first Article written in french, while I don't speak french (I'm italian);

b ) the treaty contains four articles and it is written in a sophisticated and professional manner, while I'm a beginner (I started to play only 4 weeks ago);

c ) the treaty is dated 1 9, 1127, while I was disconnected.

 

I cannot be able to write that kind of treaty because that treaty has been written from AI.

 

In summary:

- While I was absent the AI replaced the original player.

- The AI updated the initial treaty of surrender of the beginning of the war or wrote a new one treaty.

- The AI sent to himself the treaty and accepted it, so saved the town and I lost the seignory.

 

Then, I never accepted a treaty from the original player or from the AI, I never sent a treaty to the player or to the AI but I lost the town.

 

I consider this method a trick and a wrong behaviour of the AI.

 

For these reasons, I would like to receive back the town of Naples to my house of Squillace.

[Ariel]

When you declare a war of vassalization your terms of war are to force a seignory into vassalige underneath you. The game will automatically generate 2 treaties by default. Both of these treaties are peace treaties, one of them will be send to you stating you can declare war if you give the other side 2000 gold per day the war has been going on. The other default treaty states the war goals of the vassalization war, the opponent will become your vassal upon signing it, peace will be declared and the opponent needs to pay 1000 gold per day the war has been going on. Keep in mind that a Peace article hands back all the cities to their respective owners, that means the players with the De Jure control over a seignory. 

 

When an inactive players switches to AI (this can happen at any moment) it will automatically accept all the peace treaties that were generated by default. So what happened is that you lost out of sight the meaning of a Vassalization war and the following events occured:

 

Lacking a higher title claiming the city you declared a war of vassalization. The game generated 2 treaties as described above. You took the city from the inactive players De Facto, holding it hostage until your terms were met (=signing of peace treaty). You were able to hold the city for 3 days before the inactive switched to AI. The AI automatically signs the default treaties so peace is declared. Lacking the 80% political influence necessary to take over the rightfull (De Jure) control of the city from another player the peace article would hand it back to the now AI familiy. You win the war and your terms are met, the AI is now your vassal but in return you lose the city and the ability to attack your vassal. I advise anyone that reads this to never build in a city with a 2nd family as its vulnerable to peace handover.

 

To conclude I'd like to remind you that the AI doesnt do anything except sign peace treaties, it has no plan of its own. So the idea of and i quote: ''I consider this method a trick and a wrong behaviour of the AI.'' is invalid as the AI cannot trick or decieve it only follows the rules of the game. 

 

 

Terms of the vassalization war were met, you got the vassal as were the default terms. You will not be recieving Naples back as that is unfortunately not how the game works. I hope this helped.

 

With regards, the King of Portugal. 

[Robinstar]

Hi Ariel, infinite thanks for your answer.

 

I am not agree with this logic, because if I attack a town, may be to make it mine and do not to have a new vassal.

 

If I want the city vassal, I must to have the possibility to write a peace treaty (do not automatically written from the game) and propose it to the other side; if the treaty peace and/or vassallization is accepted, I am agree with you that the town becomes my vassals, instead in case of refuse we continue with the war.

 

To distinguish the two cases, the players must to have the possibility to take a decision.

 

 

Another possibility, is to have a chance to refuse the treaties automatically generated by default.

But this is not possible now, because I can only accept or keep suspended the treaties proposed by the game.

If I could refuse the treaties, shure I would have rejected.

 

Sometimes, the rules of the game do not met the intentions of a conquest.

 

 

Many thanks for your attention.

[Lucasopa]

You can, alternatively, create your own terms, so long as you include the peace option between your two nations.

 

The reason why you cannot cancel the automatic one is so that there always remains terms - even if the attacker forgets to set personalized terms. Vassalization wars then remain automatic vassalization once accepted, rather than being nothing once accepted.

 

At any point the attacker/Defender can send a treaty to the other with terms to end the war,. however. This may include vassalization of other titles, handover of titles or money.. etc.. in exchange for peace. If no agreement is met after 10 years of war (with no change in the heirachy of ownership) the war will end and things will remain exactly as they asre at the point of war-end.

[Ariel]

I believe you are mixing two wars up which makes you believe the game isnt handeling correctly in the situation. But the rules of the game match perfectly with the intentions of the war you initiated. You did not initiate a war of reconquest but a war of vassalization so the terms are that the enemy seignory becomes your vassal. This is always the direct goal of a vassal war. It is possible to preform a war of reconquest, to do so you need a higher title claiming the other seignory. This can be Viscount/Count/Duke/King. The default treaty of a reconquest are terms of conquest, the default peace treaty forces the loser to hand over the city to your direct control as well as 50% of the political influence he had and title claiming the seignory. If the war ends in such a case then you conquest the city. 

 

The issue at hand is that your goal doesnt match the war you selected. You wanted to conquest the city but instead you chose to make it a vassal by selecting War of Vassalization in the declaration window. 

 

To make things more clear I will show you how the game intends to go around conquering seignories:

 

First a family is lord with no influence outside of its own seignory. You can then preform war of vassalization to force people into your vassality so you get more claims towards titles, lets say in this case Viscount. Once the other player has been vassaled you now have 2/3 = 66% of the viscount title so you can claim it. Now you have the viscount title and with it you can reconquest the 3rd seignory to get it under your control. After raising the political influence in your new city to 40% you will own it De Jure after the server resets at midnight. You now how 3 / 5 claims for the title of Count, this is 60% so you can claim the title. Now you can reconquest 2 more seignories to get them under your direct control. 

After raising political influence for a while you will now have 5 / 16 siegnories towards a Duke title. You can now initiate a war of vassalization against another count within the Duchy. Upon winning this you will have 10 / 16 seignories towards the Duke title. Now you can claim the Duke title and you can reconquest 6 seignories within the Duchy. You can also choose to do a war of vassalization against other Dukes to get more claims towards the title of King. Once you are King you can reconquest every seignory in the allocated Kingdom that isnt your vassal.  (Numbers may vary on the location of your viscounty/county/duchy/kingdom.)

 

Although the above is an example of how the game goes about reconquest there is alternate ways to obtain seignories from easiest to hardest.

 

A) Attack neutral seignories in the beginning of the game, neutral seignories are grey on the map and have no familiy controlling them. They have a 100% neutral population. You dont have to declare war on them, you can march directly into the territory and they have no walls or fortifications. This is the primary source of expansion in the early game (first week of the server launch)

B ) Declare vassalization war on an already AI controlled seignory, the seignory will be controlled by a family but will be kicked out when you take the city. Instead of accepting your peace treaty the war will be a conquest and the population will change to 100% neutral. You can then raise political influence to also get he city De Jure.

C) Make allies in your own county early on and if the allies find you suitable they may agree to you becoming their liege. This is the fastest way to getting claims towards titles and it speeds up the process of unifiction and reconquest signifcantly. 

D) Force a fellony out of an AI vassal. The default vassal treaty forces the person with the title claiming the seignory to enhance your forces by 50 men-at-arms upon signing the vassal treaty. You can now declare war on another seignory and ask the AI for help. The AI doesnt do anything except for accepting default peace treaties upon switching from Inactive --> AI, so its ignored. After 48 hours the AI will have committed fellony by not giving you the aid you requested, you can now declare Betrayal War. Betrayal war is the same as a war of reconquest except you dont need a higher title claiming the seignory.

E) Ask a friend to attack the AI seignory that is now a vassal to you. He will conquest it and he can then give it to you again. You now own the seignory.

F) Become a loyal vassal to a player with a higher title like Duke or King. Loyal vassals may be rewarded with titles so they can reconquest seignories near them or they can be given seignories that the liege doesnt use or cannot maintain.

 

(Note: D and E must only be preformed on AI or truely inactive seignories, if you do this against an active player and he calls in a referee its against the fair play rules and you may get banned. Always play fair.)

 

As you can see there is lots of different options to obtain new seignories where you can build things safely without losing them to a peace treaty. Next time you declare war keep in mind the goals that the 3 different kinds of war have:

 

- War of Vassalization: To force another seignory to become your direct vassal. (No extra requirements)

- War of Reconquest: To take over another seignory and claim it as your own. (Requires you to have a higher title claiming the seignory)

- War of Betrayal: To take over another seignory and claim it as your own from a vassal/lord that broke their oath.  (Requires that conditions in the vassalization article have been broken or if the vassal breaks their bond by force)

 

I hope this will help you in your future endeavors to conquer the world. 

[Robinstar]

Ariel and Lucasopa, infinite Thanks for your advice and tips that I will save in a separate document to study up to better manage in the future my actions of war.