24 replies to this topic

[flavius_aetius]

Well i start this topic because the war in germany has ended. But no one says nothing about NOW WHAT?!

 

The player who started the creation of the Kingdom of Germany has been defeated in war and the choice we had to build it has been lost. Some player's have started to move to try the creation of the kingdom again ... others players are beeing "suggested" to support one of the claimers, all by private messages.

 

¡ENOUGH!

 

Let's make it clear! Who wants to apoint himself as ruler of Germany and wants to start the construction of the kingdom???  Say it here, and also say what kind of kingdom do you want to create, what diplomacy do you want to have with the neighbours of germany ... tell us what the hell are you offering us apart of being the vassals of the king.  

Let's discuss all this here in public, and not secretly as it has been done until now.

 

So, claimers move forward and say here that this is your intentions! The rest of us, say here wich project of Kingdom do we support and why!

Let's be straight as an arrow and let's fix this fu**ing madness ... let's stop being frighten of being honests.

 

I'm flavius_aetius the lord of Apeldoorn (Holland) and I'm not scared to say my way.

[streatim]

At present the House of Memmingen stands with the Duke of Swabia and their choice. Whoever they decide to go with, Memmingen will follow. 

[Saber]

Good luck Germany 

 

Indeed some communication could help to save lot of pp such a waste in the first try 

[anthonypd]

ive shared my opinion on it, i believe we can still create the kingdom of germany, and when we grow stronger hopefully the duchys that traitored will see sense and rejoin. There seems to be alot of secret messages about putting this person or that person on the throne though, i was honest from the start, if you wish to put someone else up there feel free to shift your support

[Aandra]

As a Peacenick, i am happy to follow any peacefull path to a unity of our estates and form a kingdom.

my preference is that this be done through Treaty and alliances rather than War ....

 

Shalom, peace and loving kindness

 

PS: Perhaps we could have our noble sons and daughters meet each other in order to simplify

inter family weddings ,,, that may assist alliances and treaties 

[Denys]

Hey Flavius

 

The fact is that i begin to feel extremly disapointed about players who claim unity in their words, but only think power for themself at the end...

 

 There is no equality. Only players who can be a way to reach the crown are promoted, not those who helped and respected orders since the beginning...

 

A Liege with some vassals and territories would be respected and give more lands only for the power he gives, not for his acts. A modest one, would never be!

 

I was useful at the beginning for someone. Now, with alliances and cities taken, i'm just useless for him. 

 

I feel that it would be the same whatever who rules.

 

That's why i'm fed up with that.

[Ariel]

Greetings Germanic Lords, I King of Portugal have defeated your strongest contender to the throne in an alliance with Austria. We have done so to give Austria their independence and to give all of you a choice in which person you'd like to see rule Germania. Our advice is to elect Eto for King of Germania as he has shown to a be good and kindhearted leader. This however is merely an advice and Portugal will not influence your election process any further as we believe its up to the Germanic Lords to choose who they want not us. I wish all of you good luck in rebuilding your nation and I am hoping that this time you will choose wisely before becoming vassal of a lord. 

[flavius_aetius]

Now that i see you here King of Portugal I want to ask someting. What's going to be done with Stuttgart? Is it going to be kept by Portugal or will it be given to a player of germany?

You know, I don't think the german lords can choose freely about our future if the king of Portugal gives us "the advice" (nice euphemism, by the way) but at the same time holds and open door at he hearth of Germany.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

About the matter of German polithic seems that division is a reallity. A player (sorry i don't remember who was) proposed to create a confederation as the 1st Reich. He didn't explain much of the plan but maybe what we need is to rebuild the vassallation system (for example I have some allies that are vassals to me that live at the far east of Germany ... and this is not logic), i'll explain me better:

 

The Reich would be a group of diferent alliances in Germany. This alliances would be local and formed of people very near to ech other so they can support in a efective and fast way (although they would have the same interests). Every alliance would be independent from the others (in all matters except delcaring a war, that would need the suport of 2/3 of the rest of alliances). When this alliances are stablished and begin to run smoothly then we can talk about choosing a leader (just in name, but not in real power).

I know that to do that many bounds between players will be broken, and to do that all the lieges must agree about this and promise that won't start a war against the supposed "traitor vassal".

[Ariel]

The vassalization of Stuttgart wasnt intentional, I was the first to declare war so we could pass it with our armies. Frankfurt however signed right of way earlier so there was no need to finish it, since the seignory was inactive peace wasnt signed. Then a Germanic Lord declared war hours later and took the city down, it switched to AI and the AI always signs the first Traite de Reddition. Therefore its now my vassal, my suggestion is someone declares war on it and takes it, transfer of vassality is no longer possible. I hope this will soothen your hastened conclusions about ''open doors in the hearth of Germania'', if I wanted to do that i'd still have Fulda as seignory. 

[Sandro]

So, I'm not going to write a lot because of a lack of time, but I actually think the best for all of us would to have The king of Portugal as king of Germania as well. I mean, this would mean peace between Germania and Portugal and it would make both of us stronger. Furthermore, he is in a strong position to assure this future role.

 

(And don't forget that this wasn't unusual in history. German kings were often also king of Spain.)

[Hengabone]

No, Ariel has not enough claim to take that title.

We need to make sure that the future state is stable and that every vassal accepts the power the new government holds in,

i dont think we can make sure that everyone is happy with whoever will take the title.

This civil war showed that Germany's defense is lacking, anthony was conquered before he could get help from other vassals,

this is something that cant happen in the future. 

I dont know how much I can say to this though, as Austria wishes independency and as I am a vassal of him my vote is practically invalid.

 

I really like the idea of the 1st Reich though, maybe the future lays within that.

[Ariel]

I thank you Sandro for your support, but I can assure you that it lies not within my right or desire to lead Germania. However should you choose a proper leader like Eto then you will have Portugal and Austria as a lasting allies, this I promise you.

[flavius_aetius]

Let it be known that I, the lord of Apeldoorn, break my vassallation with Anthony lord of Fulda. I would like to have a relation with my late lord Anthony, neighbours, and allies beyond Holland as it was until now (friends and allies), if they honour me to still trust me. 

 

I do this as one of the Holland allied lords with the intention of create the first State of the German Confederation, as an example to follow from other goups of allied players across Germany. Any of my allies vassalized to me that disagree with that plan are free to break their bound with me, and i promise no retaliation against them.

 

Let it be public to be known by everybody.

[streatim]

Greetings Fellow Germans,

 

Keeping in mind that this is an extremely rough draft, the House of Memmingen proposes this document as a possible method forward. Should enough German Princes decide to join with Apeldoorn and the German Confederation, this could provide a very loose framework from which we might establish a full German State.

 

Imperial Confederation of German Princes

 

We, the Princes and Lords of Germany, declare ourselves to be dedicated to the establishment of the Imperial Confederation of German Princes. This brotherly joining of the German Houses is done with good will and full faith, grounded upon the following principles:

 

1.) Sanctity of a Lord’s Land – All members of the Confederation’s land is considered sacrosanct. How they carry out their duties or treat their subjects is to be solely up to their own judgment. This carries over to the borders between German Princes; unless agreed upon in a public forum, no German Prince or Lord shall take land from another.  Should a Prince fail to heed this law, their titles shall be considered property of the Confederation and their House dishonored.

 

2.) Mutual Defense of the Confederation – All Confederate Princes are dedicated to the defense of one another. Although Princes will be free to withdraw from or refuse to join any wars of conquest, no Prince shall fail to heed a call to protect the established borders of the Confederation.

 

3.) Primus Inter Pares – Although the Confederation elects an Imperial Keeper (King), their power is granted not from the Hand of God (the Divine Right of Kings) but from the will of the Confederation. As such, the Keeper is considered first among equals rather than ruler over all. The Keeper does not bend the Confederation to their will, but rather acts as an executor of the Confederation’s will and protector of its laws.

 

Role of Government

 

Imperial Keeper (King) – The Imperial Keeper is responsible for upholding the Confederation’s laws and working to help direct the completion of Imperial Policy. The Keeper is a sacred institution, to be undertaken with only great reverence and deference to the good of all over the good of few.

 

Reichstag (Imperial Diet) ­ - The Imperial Diet is made up of all signatories to this document, including the member who acts as Imperial Keeper. Each member is afforded a voice and a vote in the Diet, for all matters requiring a vote. The Imperial Diet also acts as the judicial system and the legislative system, amending this document as required by any changing times. It is here that the will of the Confederation is most greatly represented.

Edited by streatim, 01 July 2015 - 07:23 PM.

[flavius_aetius]

I think that document is the keystone to start building Germany again. It contains the 3 main factors I belive crucial: independence for it's members, equality and justice, and the acceptance of mutual help and not agression between us.

 

Of course it can be extended and improved with new points if it's members agree to do so, but I belive it's a very good start.

 

I accept the foundations of it's document and accept everyone of it's principles, joining it and promising to fulfill them with any German that joins it.

[Sandro]

What a great idea! I would be glad to be part of this new Germania !

[Aandra]

I also like the proposal above and would be pleased to belong to this confederation.

 

Aandra ... Kempten ....... 

[thedouglas]

I would be willing to pledge my support to such a German Confederation

[elimela]

I like and support the draft posted by streatim.

[flavius_aetius]

We need a way to identify which players and territories have joined the confederation, like a list. It would make easier for us to know how's in this project.

 

For example: 

 

Player (name)

- Duchy of (name) ----> To know in which part of Germany is

- Seignory/ies of (name)

- Allied with (name/s) ----> Maybe some players don't join us but are allies of members of the Confederation, and knowing this we could avoid grudges because one of us attacked an ally of another member of the Confederation